YOUTUBE.

This is the place to post items relating to Gordon and his music in a general sense, such as his influences, how he composes, which pieces you enjoy most and why etc.

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GORDON
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YOUTUBE.

Postby GORDON » Wed Apr 23, 2008 1:59 pm

I don't know if any folk out there has seen the lashing I got for my version of Angie on YOUTUBE?

It's an interesting one on all levels.

Firstly, one must have fairly broad shoulders if one is prepared to step out there and at times be shot down by the public for something they don't approve of, which in all honesty is fair enough.

I was discussing my version of Angie with my darling wife Hilary, and even she said that she didn't really like the current version on YOUTUBE. She said that the intro was too fast and flashy for it's own sake, but the rest of it was fine albeit a tad fast.

So there you have it, you can't please everyone, and the irony is that I have recently decided to drop that virtuosic intro and go straight into the piece itself, so even I in my heart of hearts didn't feel right about it.

Maybe our Sue could post this onto YOUTUBE for me as a way of letting folk know that to a large degree I think they were right, and can only apologise for this adrenaline fuelled version... :D

We could remove it, but that would be pointless, and anyway it's a good talking point, and in itself creates a democratic balance methinks!

You never know, there may be some who actually like this version... :wink:

Be Well friends.

G

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Bob Wilson
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Postby Bob Wilson » Wed Apr 23, 2008 6:43 pm

OK!
Let’ get things in perspective.
3 people out of 1,500 felt strongly enough about the piece to leave a negative message. That’s 0.2%. In no way does that make it a bad piece.
I do get annoyed at criticism when it is not constructive and this is ‘personal opinion’.
I have in the past been of the opinion that covers will never be as good as the original. My mind was changed when I heard Mike Oldfield’s version of 'Wonderful Land'. It was totally different to the Shadows version, but an excellent version nonetheless, and made me think that covers should be done in the player’s style, rather than copying a piece to prove that you can play like ’whoever’. Let’s face it, if you hear a version that is exactly the same as the original, it only serves to stroke the ego of the player and the listener will not bother to obtain an exact copy of something they probably already have. I like to hear different versions of the same piece, as different players give different perspective with their playing. I agree that this piece is different to others, but surely that is what makes it a Giltrap version rather than an exact copy of someone else. I, for one, enjoy the piece as it is played on YouTube (I was actually there on the night). Whether people think it is too fast or not, is not an issue for me. The fact is, it is ‘a version’ of Angie in a different style to that of Davy Graham. Wait until there is a Heavy Metal version :lol: I’m sure that will create a few negatives :wink:
Gordon, you don't need to apologise for this adrenaline fuelled version. These people chose to watch, and although constructive criticism is a necessary part of viewing, I could see nothing constructive in any of these posts, and, as I like the piece, don't agree with their comments anyway.
Well, that’s my rant over! I feel so refreshed :)
Best wishes
Bob

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Postby FingerBone Bill » Thu Apr 24, 2008 1:07 am

Hi Gordon,

It's refreshing to see that gifted players such as yourself can be every bit as insecure about your music as us lesser mortals. :D

If I wanted to hear Davey Graham's version of Anji I'd listen to Davey Graham. If I want to hear the Giltrap version I'd be dissapointed if I didn't get a different take on things.

I liked the intro - tunes like this are "show-off" pieces where the performer is expected to display his talent. Your audience on the night seemed to enjoy it too!

Look at any virtuoso performance by any genius on YouTube and you'll find "knockers" making their disparaging comments. What's the old saying; Those who can't do, teach; those who can't do, criticise.

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Postby Sue » Thu Apr 24, 2008 10:30 am

Gordon and I had had an earlier discussion on the topic of negative postings ( not that he gets many ) and decided that leaving them there as opposed to deleting them but usually making no comment was maybe the best thing to do.

I certainly don't believe that Gordon has anything to apologise about over the introduction or indeed any part of his version of Angie, so I did hesitate for some time before posting his reply on Youtube as he requested. On balance, I thought that a gracious acknowledgement would do no harm so posted a cut down version that I hope retains the spirit of the original (Youtube comments are strictly size limited)

As I'd said to him, whatever anyone produces for public consumption be it music, paintings, literature, even this website, you can't please everyone. Everyones personal taste is different - and long may that continue - it means that there is a market for a wide variety of styles, with something out there to suit everyone. Just because a minority of people find something not to their taste doesn't mean there is anything wrong with it or that it is less worthy than any other piece.

Negative comments do hurt though, especially when you are someone like Gordon who spends months agonising over a track to get it as good as he possibly can before letting the public hear the result.

Constructive criticism is one thing, but ripping into an artist just because of personal dislike of a piece or preference for another version is entirely another. As I say, we all encounter things that are not to our taste, but I would hope that most people would appreciate the work and talent behind the piece even if they don't personally like the finished result, and accordingly show some restraint in how they criticize the artist. Unfortunately this is not the way of the world today and a few illconsidered words have the ability to wound deeply.

Sue

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Postby GORDON » Thu Apr 24, 2008 10:31 am

Hi Bill.

Many thanks for that posting sir. In many I think it's healthy to be self critical, it's keeps us ALL moving forward with our playing. I don't thnk I will EVER be totally satisfied with what I do, but having said that, I honestly don't think I could have improved on the work I did on my pal Rick Wakeman's tracks on our duo album due out later this year. I think one knows in ones heart if one has done a good job and that the music has to a degree that resonance of truth about it.

With regard to Angie, I was never quite happy with the intro,and will ALWAYS get the truth from my wife, bless her.I know that there are many folk out there that regard my version as a bit special, and for that I'm eternally gratefull as I am to you sir for caring enough to post your extremely valid comments.

Be Well.

G

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Postby GORDON » Thu Apr 24, 2008 10:36 am

THANKYOU to Bob and Sue for your postings, I'm very touched by all of this.

G.

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Roger
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Postby Roger » Thu Apr 24, 2008 8:18 pm

Gordon,

I agree with Bob on this one - in fact, I could have written his reply! I've never seen the point of cover versions that are pretty much the same as the original anyway, but believe that they should reflect a person's sound, style and general approach to playing, music etc.

Something I learned on management courses years ago that it doesn't matter who you are or what you are doing, there will always be a small percentage of people who won't like you or what you do - it's basically out of your hands. What does matter is that in your case Gordon a whole army of fans appreciate your compositions and your playing, not to mention some respected peers - just look at the Youtube comments for Dodos and Mrs singer's waltz for instance.

Best wishes,

Roger

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You Tube

Postby John Adams » Sun Apr 27, 2008 6:23 pm

What ever happened to “if you can’t say anything nice keep your mouth shut!” Angie is one of my favourite compositions and I have copies by Davey Graham, Bert Jansch and Gordon, all different and all played by talented musicians! What a bland world it would be if we prevented musicians playing tunes in their own styles! Maybe this complainer would like us all to wear indistinguishable clothes and eat identical meals?
For the record I also enjoy listening to Gordon’s version of Here Comes The Sun, God Save The Queen, Smoke On The Water and Summer Holiday – different from the originals and played to an exceptionally high standard as only Gordon can.
I know that Gordon is always there to help other musicians and takes pleasure when people who are able to master one of his compositions – even if they change it in some way! Keep up the good work Gordon, playing music in the Giltrap style, entertaining crowds and bringing pleasure to many, many people all over the country (and Malta). Your concerts would not be the same without the “Twiddley Bits!”

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Re: You Tube

Postby FingerBone Bill » Sun Apr 27, 2008 11:47 pm

John Adams wrote:What ever happened to “if you can’t say anything nice keep your mouth shut!” ...


Agreed John, and at a practical level, life's just too short to hunt down and insult every artist you dislike! :D

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Russ Gannicott
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Postby Russ Gannicott » Tue Apr 29, 2008 12:58 am

I just spent he past hour typing a five hundred word response to this...then my PC crashed and I lost it all...I am not impressed. But hell, at the end of the day I think you know what my standpoint would be!
Much love,
Russ

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Postby Russ Gannicott » Tue Apr 29, 2008 1:06 am

Actually....I will add one thing. Ash's band has just come in for a bit of criticism over their version of Crossroads 'not as good as Eric' etc. It's based on Robert Johnson's 1936 recording of 'crossroads blues'...probably the same source as Clapton used himself...a fact that would not go un-noticed on EC himself i'm sure. Rather like Davey's or Burt's acknowlegement of your interpretation of Angelina.
'Till the next time,
Russ!

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Roger
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Postby Roger » Tue Apr 29, 2008 5:24 pm

Russ,

Hmmm.......whatever happened to encouraging young people and giving them a positive environment to develop in!!?

Ash,

As a future king of the Firebird I thought you might enjoy the following youtube clips:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ErYXGVyA3U0&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KJCy8zpFPTg

They are both of Roxy Music. In the first, Phil Manzanera is playing his reverse-body FirebirdVII (60's vintage). He has recorded and gigged with this guitar alot over the years and it's still one of his favourites. In the second clip he's playing a non-reverse model, which appeared for one or two tours in the 70's, but hasn't been seen much since.

All the best,

Roger

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Bob Wilson
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Postby Bob Wilson » Wed Apr 30, 2008 12:26 pm

Hi Russ
Negative responses to any music is usually personal choice. They are usually from non-musicians or opinionated musicians who think they are better than they really are.
They should be treated with the respect they deserve, none.
Constructive criticism is a positive thing that improves the performer if it is valid criticism.
Nobody is able to please every single person and vocalising this is unnecessary and hurtful. Ignore these comments and go by crowd response.

Ash,
A piece of gold from the late Bruce Lee: 'Take what is valid and disregard the rest'.
Remember it and disregard any negatives in life unless there is a constructive answer with it.
Best wishes
Bob


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