Truss Rods in " Concert Size " Electro Classical Guitars

Here you can discuss details about instruments, equipment and all those other bits that non-musicians won't understand !

Moderator: GORDON

Sam Waylen
Posts: 4
Joined: Mon Jan 27, 2014 3:33 am

Truss Rods in " Concert Size " Electro Classical Guitars

Postby Sam Waylen » Wed Jan 29, 2014 2:14 am

Truss Rods in Properly Full-Sized ( but with Cutaway Models included ) Classical Guitars.

I own a Crafter CE 24/YL ( Anyone know what the " YL" stands for ? :? ) and am delighted that minimising neck warpage has been tackled in this way.

I notice however that terms like " nylon string " ..." Spanish "..." Classical " risk being misleading and that where there is a sizeable market for " Acoustic Style Folk " Guitars with nylon strings,there is a risk to someone like myself of ending up with the wrong sort of instrument.

My understanding of the historical perspective of the Classical Guitar is that the 1850 " Torres" absolutely defined its dimensions,so ,earlier on in my life whilst learning ( an ongoing process surely ! ) I did my best to use guitars that were as close as possible to those original specifications. 8)

I want to buy a second Electro Classical Guitar,with a truss rod, ( like the Crafter ) that contains a transducer ( if that is what they are still called ) but don't know how,or where, to look. :?:

Nowadays I find cambered necks and narrowed fingerboards are being included under a vague umbrella term of
" Classical " by manufacturers ,although mercifully,there can sometimes be " fine print " making references to these variants on the original design.

:idea: Are there any other Classical Guitarists among you who enjoy amplifying the sounds of Classical Guitar Music and who want the longevity to the instrument's life that a Truss Rod provides, but who also wish that the Scale of the instrument is otherwise as close as possible to the Torres original.

If so,where are you good people finding your instruments ?

Or,have things moved on too far for this to be any more than a dream on my part ? :cry:

Hoping to be able to benefit from some collective wisdom here,

Curious Newbie

Sam Waylen

User avatar
Bob Wilson
Posts: 225
Joined: Mon Mar 26, 2007 8:42 pm
Location: Trowbridge, Wiltshire

Re: Truss Rods in " Concert Size " Electro Classical Guitar

Postby Bob Wilson » Wed Jan 29, 2014 9:13 am

Hi Sam
Welcome to the forum. The YL on your guitar usually means yellow, so I would imagine you have a spruce top or something yellowish.
If you are looking for a new Classical guitar I would check out Ray Burley’s signature models (Santos and Vintage models). His website may give more information. I’m not sure he does electro-acoustic as most don’t need too much amplifying, but it’s a good place to start.
Good luck
Bob
Lives touch and paths cross for a reason - be grateful for these meetings and grow as a person

User avatar
GORDON
Site Admin
Posts: 1311
Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2007 1:05 pm
Location: SUTTON COLDFIELD

Re: Truss Rods in " Concert Size " Electro Classical Guitar

Postby GORDON » Wed Jan 29, 2014 11:25 am

Ray Burley plays a Santos Martinez with a cutaway and built in Fishman pickup for his gigs with our duo Double Vision and with our quartet Four Parts Guitar. He recently had a Fishman pick up fitted to his signature model but this does not come as standard.The aforementioned Martinez with the cutaway sounds wonderful. Mind you Ray can make anything sound wonderful but that guitar plugged in certainly helps.

Thanks Bob for the heads up on this buddy,much appreciated.

Be well.

G.

User avatar
matt
Posts: 40
Joined: Wed Jan 15, 2014 3:28 pm
Location: Sutton Coldfield

Re: Truss Rods in " Concert Size " Electro Classical Guitar

Postby matt » Wed Jan 29, 2014 2:25 pm

Take a look at JHS's website...

http://www.jhs.co.uk/santos.html

Ray's sig guitar is in there along with a host of fishman equipped models. To be honest if you have a good talk with JHS then you could have a pickup supplied and fitted to any instrument of your choice. :)

As regards the trussrod I don't know if the Santos range has them... I know cort do a range of electro classicals with full sized necks and indeed the narrower cec5 which I have... a practice instrument at best that I keep as it's quiet but has a fishman pickup should I ever feel the need...

At the end of the day a good luthier can fix almost any neck related issues... There's a couple here that have been recommended to me here who's names of course instantly escape me... :P

Erm... John Williams in Lichfield for starts
Damn... broke a nail

Sam Waylen
Posts: 4
Joined: Mon Jan 27, 2014 3:33 am

Re: Truss Rods in " Concert Size " Electro Classical Guitar

Postby Sam Waylen » Wed Feb 05, 2014 1:57 am

Dear Bob ( Wilson) ...Thanks for your reply.

Ray Burley is a new name for me.

£ 700 is way over budget for me.

Up here in Edinburgh where even unpaid,standard, pub " sessions " take place...three,four,five or six guitar players at a time might all be joining in for free !

Difficult to get paid gigs.My current budget is around £2-300 absolute tops ...BUT I DO appreciate the recommendation.....................Who know ,....I MAY get prosperous.

The TRUSS ROD thing though ,is something I have more or less set my heart on,as a point of thrift .

Where you don't GET lifetime guarantees for wooden necks,.......if a trussed neck goes wonky you can just get the Allen key out..( At least I THINK that is all there is to it... [If not,then I am happy to hear from anyone who might know different !] )

YL was satisfying to learn.THANKS ! All too often there is concealed meaning in these " serial number" - style codes.

I really don't appreciate this information being hidden by these obscure abbreviations and the likes.


I will keep on looking

And thanks again

Sam

Trevor Raggatt
Posts: 275
Joined: Mon Mar 26, 2007 11:28 am
Location: Middlesex
Contact:

Re: Truss Rods in " Concert Size " Electro Classical Guitar

Postby Trevor Raggatt » Thu Feb 06, 2014 11:47 pm

Sam,

You might find that if a truss rod is a must then there is a good chance that your choice will be quite limited. Traditionally most nylon strung guitars do not feature a truss rod, the thinking being that they just don't need one. Original Spanish and Classical guitars did not have a truss rod adjustable neck. The low tension of cat gut (now nylon) strings simply didn't exert enough of a pull on the neck to require reinforcement and adjustment.

However, in the 19th C as makers like Stauffer and Martin introduced steel strings onto their instruments (in an effort to gain more volume) the strain of the much higher tension on the neck led to neck warping. Martin initially addressed this by embedding a solid T shaped rod in the neck to strengthen it. Later the adjustable truss rod was introduced to tension the neck against the strings. This also allowed a degree of adjustability.

The very large majority of builders, whether mass producers or hand builders won't include a truss rod in a nylon strung/classical guitar. Hence, most not even mentioning it on their spec sheets - it's just presumed. You may want to consider further about whether a truss rod on a classical is a solution to a problem which is very unlikely to exist - and therefore not actually a necessity. Of course, you may decide that a truss rod is a personal "must have" for you - in which case you may just have to look at options to try out as many brands and models so that you can make a visual inspection to determine whether or not it's got one. As I said a browse around the websites of a number of famous makes doesn't detail whether or not a truss rod is included on their models.

You said your budget is a couple of hundred quid. This will make a large difference too. Ironically, you might find that the lower/mid end manufacturers are more likely to have a truss rod. I saw mention of some of the Takamine electro-classicals having a truss rod. They make good work horse guitars so might be worth looking at. Their G series are based on a modernised Torres spec and have good quality electronics.

Good luck with the search and the deliberations. Let us know how you get on.


PS The YL in your guitar's model number does stand for Yellow - in your case more of an "aged vintage look stain". Woods like spruce go from a near white colour to a more honey yellow colour as they age and are exposed to the UV in daylight. Cedar does similar but starts browner and ends up browner. Many manufacturers offer a colour option mimicking this aged look. Crafter offer their classicals in BK (black), N (natural), VN (vintage natural - not much different) and YL (an aged "yellow" stain).

PPS Do check out Ray Burley - great player and chum of Gordon's. He did a great CD called "Long Road Home" which is classical versions of Gordon's tunes - sublime. He's also a half of "Double Vision" and a quarter of "4 Parts Guitar" with Gordon.

BRC
Posts: 110
Joined: Sun Jul 10, 2011 8:45 am
Location: Kent, United Kingdom

Re: Truss Rods in " Concert Size " Electro Classical Guitar

Postby BRC » Fri Feb 07, 2014 8:11 am

I have an Aria AK-30CE, bought about 12 years or so ago, which seems to meet the specifications you are seeking.

I won't pretend it is necessarily up to same standard as the Ray Burley guitar referred to above. However, it is a very reliable and easy playing guitar and is definitely sub £200. It is an instrument that I find very easy to play, especially when my hands are feeling too tired for steel strings.

The tone is good, though that is always going to be an issue that only you can judge against your own preferences and taste, and this guitar does come with built-in acoustic pickup and pre amp.

Do a search online for this guitar and check the specs against your requirements ........ and finances}

User avatar
Oldbones
Posts: 112
Joined: Thu Mar 13, 2014 8:16 am
Location: Cheshire

Re: Truss Rods in " Concert Size " Electro Classical Guitar

Postby Oldbones » Sat Mar 29, 2014 10:29 am

How whacky do you want to get?
How whacky does anyone want to get if they want an electro nylon strung guitar? (Note that I avoided using the word 'classical')

Have you encountered the Stagg 'Angel Lopez' EC3000CN, I wonder?
Not too many seem to have done so.

A while back, I uploaded three demo/reviews

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t8dsgz8heBs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-mvugnMaqHE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=otMnfei4Q2c

Not to everyone's tastes - but still an interesting option for anyone who wants a nylon-strung guitar that isn't a classical.
It isn't how fast you can play that counts - it's that you only play as fast as you need to play that is important.
Silence can be as eloquent as sound.


Return to “Guitar Anoraks Forum”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests